Camelot logo Elizabeth Nelson:
What really happened to Flight 93
Interview transcript

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Elizabeth Nelson : What really happened to Flight 93
Audio interview, February 2009

Click here for one of many websites depicting the claimed Flight 93 crash site at Shanksville, PA.
Major Rick Gibney, the F-16 pilot who was claimed to have fired the missile.
Discussion of the Rick Gibney story.
Testimony that a live missile was fired by an F-16 that morning.
Video of a Rumsfeld slip of the tongue suggesting that Flight 93 was shot down.


Start of interview

This is Bill Ryan from Project Camelot. The date today, as I record this introduction, is the 6th of April 2009.

Earlier this year, I was approached by a remarkable and very brave young lady who was present in the room when the decision was made to shoot down UA flight 93 over Shanksville, Pennsylvania on the morning of 11th of September, 2001.

In the next 40 minutes, this very courageous woman tells her story. It begins with a sequence of critical extracts which we have portrayed dramatically to illustrate the significance of the story. We're aware of the sensitivity and emotional import of this subject to millions of patriotic Americans, including many in the military, and we respect that fully.

For obvious reasons, Elizabeth Nelson is not this woman's real name, but the account you are about to hear is totally authentic. As you listen to her testimony, consider the complexities of the events of that day, and the many good people who were caught up in them, seeking only to do the best for their country, quite unaware of what the real truth might be behind the scenes.


Elizabeth Nelson (EN):  And we stood there, me and him and two other soldiers, and we looked at the TV, and we could see the smoke coming out of the building. And at that moment I saw the next plane coming, crash into the other tower. Now both towers were hit. And we all were just absolutely silent, you know. We knew what this meant.

...I do not know the names and ranks of the people in the room. I do know that it was, at the time, the head Commander of the Hospital and, I believe, the Commander of the Base.

...a plane that was flying in a no-fly zone near to Camp David and heading toward Site R. I had no idea what Site R was. And to me Camp David was a place where George Bush went on vacation. I didn’t know any more than that.

...Protocol is that this is a no-fly zone. We have to take this plane down. Yes, it’s a passenger plane. It needs to be taken down.

...And so I was in this room when the decision was mutually made by the people talking on the phone in the room that I was in, to shoot this plane down.

...Site R is an underground city, under a mountain in Pennsylvania.

...We have just a little bit of time to decide before it’s too late. You could feel the intensity in this room. I mean... and these men weren’t heartless men.

...I remember the distinct feeling inside of me when I saw on the news that there was this story that there were terrorists on this plane, and that the people overtook the pilot and crashed the plane, and how this was leaking out as these people being heroes. And I remember the extreme moral frustration inside of me, of feeling: But that’s not true! That’s not true at all...

Start of Interview

Bill Ryan (BR):  I want to thank you for coming forward to talk to us about a very interesting experience that you had on September 11, 2001, when you were in the military, in a particular location, in a position to witness some events which a lot of people might be very interested in.

And having given that teaser of an introduction, I invite you to say whatever it is that you would like to say about yourself, what your position was at that time, what you were doing, where you were, and how come you got to be there.

Elizabeth Nelson (EN):  OK. I was in the last six months of my active duty, in training in the U.S. Army, still of the rank of a Private, I believe, Private First Class. I was stationed at Fort Meade under the Kimbrough Ambulatory Care Center Hospital.

Fort Meade also has on it the base of NSA, which is the National Security Agency. And it’s a fully operational hospital that houses soldiers as trainees to continue and finish up their medical training.

My training was as a radiologic technologist, which is an X-ray tech. And I had done, prior to that, a year and a half basic training, ENT school, and the in-class aspect of my training at different bases.

BR:  But despite the specialty, essentially you were a soldier. Right?

EN:  Absolutely. I went through 13 weeks of intense basic training. I prepared myself beforehand and I was running between nine and eleven miles daily before I went into the military, six days a week, to prepare myself. My whole idea... And doing yoga and meditation.

My idea was that: They will not break me physically. They will have nothing to say to me physically and they won’t touch me. And in the company of 160 soldiers, I was one of the top three females in the whole company. And I never had a problem.

And so, after I finished that leg of my training and I went to Fort Meade, I arrived there and had already planned to go home. Three weeks into my time there I was allowed to have a leave, which was very rare. You don’t get very much of that time.

And then September 11th happened. I was so angry that they didn’t allow me to go home! On that day I remember we were all in the morning, and in the morning we had to report to the hospital just like any hospital, for preparing for the day.

BR:  It was a routine day.

EN:  A routine day.

BR:  The start of that day.

EN:  Normal day. And we had the early morning patients -- preparing enemas, and upper-GIs. They’d drink the barium, and we’d look at their intestines.

And then after these were done in the morning, one of the soldiers, who was a more senior soldier, a specialist, I believe, he was out in the lobby and he came out into the back room where we were all were and he said: Holy shit! I just saw a plane crash into one of the Twin Towers.

And the three of us were like: Really? That’s really strange. And so we walked out to the front desk.

BR:  He’d seen it on some television.

EN:  He saw it on the hospital TV, right at the lobby...

BR:  OK.

EN:  ...where you come in and check in for your x-rays. And we stood there, me and him and two other soldiers and we looked at the TV and you could see the smoke coming out of the building. And at that moment I saw the next plane coming, crash into the other tower. Now both towers were hit. And we all were just absolutely silent, you know. We knew what this meant. This was intentional.

BR:  OK. But what you’re saying here is that he saw the first plane hit, captured on a live television camera somehow.

EN:  Yes.

BR:  Which has never been acknowledged in the public domain.

EN:  Yes.

BR:  So he saw the first plane crash, and then he came in to tell that to you?

EN:  Mm hm. The department... it was just a big hallway. And he just saw this, and he walked back, and there was maybe six or seven of us standing there. And he said: Holy shit! There’s a plane just crashed into the tower.

And a few of us were like: What? Really? And we went to see for ourselves and we were standing there watching this building on fire.

BR:  One building on fire.

EN:  Yes. And as we stood there, we saw the second plane come. And then all of us, I think there was like four of us standing there at the moment - me, him, two or three other people... two other people. It’s hard to remember. Yes. And we stood there and said: Holy shit! That wasn’t an accident. Something’s happening.

And just as, you know... I mean, I also have gone over this in my head many times and thought: Well, maybe he... maybe a video camera... Maybe he didn’t see the plane actually crash in. Maybe the video camera was focusing in on the tower burning. Or whatever. But I don’t know. It just... he said he saw it crashing in. So...

BR:  Well, this is also...

EN:  And I didn’t doubt this, because I was so enclosed on the base and the life on the base that... You don’t see TV from the outside. You know.

BR:  But you don’t know what channel this was.

EN:  No.

BR:  This was some internal military hospital channel?

EN:  Yes. And they do have regular channels like CNN or NBC or something. But as far as I know, we’re not allowed to change it. We had no control over this. The TV was set. So...

BR:  And do you remember, was there any commentary, like any newscaster saying: Oh my God! or...?

EN:  No.

BR:  It was just a picture?

EN:  Just, yes, just a picture, and I don’t... There wasn’t any news. There wasn’t anybody running, as far as I remember.

And we didn’t stay long at the TV because it happened almost immediately that over the loud speaker following this... I would say within, you know, ten minutes, somebody came over the loudspeaker - maybe even less than ten minutes - for soldiers to report and to get their weapons.

BR:  Get their weapons?

EN:  Yes.

BR:  Because...?

EN:  To protect the base.

BR:  As a standard procedure to an apparent attack on the base?

EN:  Standard procedure. On-going. But not me. Not me, because I was in training.

BR:  OK. And of course George Bush himself, in an apparent slip of the tongue to the press, said that he had seen it and had said something like, that he thought to himself: My God, that’s some terrible pilot. And then he said that when he saw the second plane crash, he realized that there was an attack. That’s what he said. So he could have seen...

EN:  What I’m talking about.

BR:  ...whatever it was that you’re talking about. So it seems to be a real event. OK. Talk us through what happened. What happened then with you and your movements that day?

EN:  So after this, the - I believe it was the First Sergeant of the hospital and the Commander. A First Sergeant is in the Sergeant rankings, and a Commander is in the Officer rankings. And they sort of...

The First Sergeant of our department gathered us all together, told us that the soldiers that were stationed there, they needed to report to the command center, basically.

And so, all the other departments of soldiers - the nursing department, the clerical, administrational department - everybody sent their base soldiers there and I didn’t see them anymore. So basically the hospital was not fully active at that point. Everything was on hold.

And those soldiers, my friends later told me that they were on 24-hour duty shifts of manning the gates and patrolling the surrounding of the area of the base.

For me and the one other student that was there, our First Sergeant -- she was a really nice woman, she was very sweet -- she offered us up to the Commander of the Hospital, and I believe the Commander of the Base, to be of service to them because we didn’t have the right to bear arms while we’re in training, or something like this, some logistical thing, and so she gave us to them.

BR:  Because it was something useful you could do?

EN:  That we could be useful, because nobody was in the department anymore, so we  needed to: OK, get rid of these two soldiers. You can take them.

BR:  OK.

EN:  And so I remember the room that they took us into. And they told us that we were in charge of, you know, getting coffees, any kind of snacks from the cafeteria - not cafeteria, like from the snack machines or from the place where you can get little snacks - in charge of making photocopies because she and I had the access codes for the rooms, to get in there.

BR:  Because these guys were having a meeting.

EN:  Exactly.

BR:  It was a major meeting precipitated by the fact that this event had just happened.

EN:  Yes.

BR:  And that’s all you knew at that point.

EN:  That’s all that I knew. And it was made very clear to us that we were not to look at them. We were... they sat us in chairs at the far end of the room, not facing them and we were told to look at the wall and not listen to anything we heard. This was our direct orders.

And so, she and I sat there staring at the wall, sometimes, you know, nudging each other or, you know, [makes whispering sounds] or talking a little bit or something, but really being very soldierly about this.

And there was probably six or seven men around this very large table, just like you would see in a big office somewhere. And they had this funny phone. It was like a conference-call phone. And I remember them sitting there and they were talking through this phone. And it seemed to me that they were talking to one or two other places.

BR:  Any idea who or where?

EN:  You know, my feeling now was that they were communicating with someone from West Point, something that had to do with West Point, which is a military base as well, based on the Hudson River in New York, about an hour north of New York City.

And so I... That was my feeling, some reason because of location. And I really think that I heard this somewhere because it stuck in my head over these years that... Something with West Point.

BR:  Did you know the names and ranks of the people in the room?

EN:  I do not know the names and ranks of the people in the room. I do know that it was, at the time, the head Commander of the Hospital, and I believe the Commander of the Base.

BR:  These are two different men you’re talking about.

EN:  Yes. There’s the guy who oversees the hospital, and then there’s the guy that oversees the base.

BR:  OK.

EN:  I don’t know their ranks but they were... In my opinion, they were the top-ranked in the room. And then there were other Officers and other... maybe a few First Sergeants in the room as well.

BR:  And the conversation around the table was like: OK, guys, what’s going on here?

EN:  OK, guys, what’s going on here. I felt stress, and some unknowingness, and some fear, but they hold it so well, really. They hold themselves together.

And then the topic turned to a plane that was flying in a no-fly zone near to Camp David and heading towards Site R. I had no idea what Site R was. And to me Camp David was a place where George Bush went on vacation. I didn’t know any more than that.

BR:  And this was information that was coming in on this telephone from elsewhere.

EN:  Yes. Yes. And they were discussing this, of... Protocol is that this is a no-fly zone. We have to take this plane down. Yes, it’s a passenger plane. It needs to be taken down. It’s a no-fly zone. And so...

BR:  Was there talk of hijackers and an attack?

EN:  No.

BR:  Was that part of the conversation?

EN:  No. I don’t... I didn’t hear a thing about hijackers. We just heard that this plane was flying in a no-fly zone and they couldn’t make contact with the plane, or something like this. There was no communication. Protocol says it has to be taken out. And so I was in this room when the decision was mutually made by the people talking on the phone in the room that I was in, to shoot this plane down.

BR:  And so... OK, let me feed this back to you. What you’re saying then is that you heard in real time, and you were there in the room where the order was given... was first of all discussed, agreed, and then given by a decision-maker. Was that somebody in the room? Or was that one of the guys...? Who was it that said why they were going to do this?

EN:  I think it was in agreement, that these two to three groups that were talking agreed this needs to be done: OK. Everybody in this room, do you agree? Yes. OK. You guys agree. OK, we go for this, then.

I think it wasn’t... No, actually there... I do remember one man, the lead man in the room, leading the show and everybody else followed.

But he wasn’t just saying: OK, we shoot it down out of the sky without these other people on the phone agreeing.

They had said this was what they... standard protocol, can’t make contact or something. And then it was like: OK. Then we must do this. We have to do this. And then everybody in the room agreed with the one person, you know, doing the communications.

It wasn’t the whole time just one person communicating. A couple of them would talk in and out, but this guy seemed to be the “chef” of the room.

BR:  He was driving it, is what you are saying.

EN:  Yes. It didn’t feel like anybody knew that there was anything with terrorists.

BR:  I mean, there was no talk of terrorists on this plane. There was an unknown situation, a plane that couldn’t be communicated with.

EN:  Unknown situation.

BR:  Was there any reference to the attack on the Twin Towers that you’d seen on the television? They must have talked about this.

EN:  Yes. Well, they had seen this and this was part of the reason why they didn’t know what the destination was for this.

BR:  OK. Now, was this the first time you’d heard a reference to Site R?

EN:  Yes.

BR:  What is Site R?

EN:  From what I learned afterwards, because we had a medical unit deployed for two weeks out to Site R, and one of the x-ray techs was a very good friend of mine. Site R is an underground city under a mountain in Pennsylvania, completely isolated and fully secure, with similar things like Area 51 where they can tell if a mouse is moving in a huge radius around this mountain.

And you have to go through several gates, and check, after check, after check. And it’s heavily guarded, with a huge metal door that opens into a city that’s just like a military base under the ground.

BR:  And that was the first time you’d heard any mention of Site R? It wasn’t part of your training or anything like that at all?

EN:  No.

BR:  I looked it up, because you and I had talked about this briefly before, when you gave me an overview of your experience. So I went and checked it out, and here it is. Take a look.

EN:  Mm hm. Site R...

BR:  You know, you’re welcome to read that to the microphone.

EN:  [reading] The Raven Rock Mountain Complex, RRMC, is a United States government facility on Raven Rock, a mountain in the US state of Pennsylvania. It’s located about 14 kilometers east of Waynesboro, Pennsylvania and 10 kilometers north-east of Camp David, Maryland.

I’ve never seen this before.

[reading] It is also called the Raven Rock Military Complex, or simply Site R. Other designations, and nicknames include The Rock, National Military Command Center Reservation, and Alternate National Military Command Center. Alternate Joint Communications Center… Backup Pentagon…

BR:  That’s exactly what you said, isn’t it?

EN:  Yes.

BR:  Yes.

EN:  This is the housing-place of the representatives and the congressmen and all of the... It’s not for the people. It’s for the government so they can hide. [laughs]

[reading] Backup Pentagon, or Site RT. The latter refers to the vast array of communication towers and equipment atop the mountain. It’s known as the Underground Pentagon.

This is fascinating. [laughs] [reading] Its largest tenant is not the Defensive Threat Reduction Agency. The largest tenants are the Alternate National Military Command Center or Joint Staff Support Center.

[reading] 114th Signal Battalion… Emergency Operations Center. That’s what we had sent the medical team out to, was the Emergency Operations Center….


BR:  So there it is. It’s obviously a classified facility but its existence is in the public domain. It stands to reason that there would be a no-fly zone around this thing.

And what really fascinates me about this story is that what you’re saying is that you’re blowing the whistle, if I can use that term, on the fact that Flight 93 - it WAS shot down, which will come as no surprise to anyone who’s been paying any attention to this over the years.

EN:  Mm hm.

BR:  But that the order to do that was given by people who had no idea -- assuming it was true that 9/11 was an inside job. They believed that this was real. They didn’t know what was happening. They were following strict, very well-defined, military protocol.

If you’ve got a plane flying towards a secure military establishment that won’t respond, it doesn’t matter who’s onboard, the protocol says that you shoot it down.

Because, in a war setting that morning after the tower in New York -- seen from these guys’ points of view, who presumably weren’t in the loop -- they have to assume that there could be an atomic weapon onboard, there could be high explosives, there could be anything at all. And they have to do what the military do best. Is that an accurate summary of what...?

EN:  Absolutely.

BR:  Yes.

EN:  I can merely say that if the people in the room knew about this, they are amazing actors and they should be in Hollywood movies, because the feeling in there was really like: We have just a little bit of time to decide before it’s too late.

You could feel the intensity in this room, you know? I mean... and these men weren’t heartless men. I didn’t feel them to be heartless.

BR:  Sure. They were doing their job.

EN:  They were doing their job.

BR:  They were doing their job. OK. Is there anything else which you observed or experienced in that room, or on that day, that’s worth reporting on record here? Were you in the room when the plane was shot down? Did you hear any confirmation of this? Do you remember a reaction?

EN:  I don’t remember a reaction, but I remember sitting in this room for a long time. I remember sitting in this room.

And I remember the distinct feeling inside of me of when I saw on the news that there was this story that there were terrorists on this plane, and that the people overtook the pilot and crashed the plane, - I mean, overtook the terrorists and crashed the plane themselves. And how this was leaking out as these people being heroes.

And I remember the extreme moral frustration inside of me, of feeling: But that’s not true! That’s not true at all! We shot this down. And a huge conflict inside of me, of knowing that the world is made to believe this story that’s not true.

And how people just buy this. And I felt that that was really wrong, you know. Why couldn’t they just say: Strict military protocol. It’s a no-fly zone. Sorry.

BR:  Yes. It’s interesting to debate, isn’t it? That, taking what you experienced at face value, actually it’s the proper thing to do.

EN:  Absolutely.

BR:  But it’s kind of like somebody seemed to have made a decision without the courage necessary to say: Look, we’re sorry there were folks onboard that plane, but we had to do what we had to do because of what had happened in New York just a little while earlier.

EN:  Absolutely. It’s what it is.

BR:  Interesting. So what you’re saying then, again in summary, is, based on what you observed, you attach no blame or involvement or anything to those people in that room who made that decision, because they were doing their jobs.

EN:  Yes. I don’t feel like they knew anything else. I feel like it was a chaotic time, you know, where a decision needs to be made in haste, as quickly as possible. And I felt like everybody felt like it was the right thing to do.

Like I said, if anybody knew this that this was something inside, they were really great actors. They should be up there with John Wayne.

BR:  OK. So you were in that room for a very long time, you just said.

EN:  Mm hm.

BR:  Did this meeting continue? Or did they... I mean, what happened at that time?

EN:  It continued. I had to go make copies of some things. I came back with some sandwiches or something at some point for the men. And then I sat and I waited.

My First Sergeant came and checked on me and the other student as well, just to see if we were OK. We said we were fine and then she told us that after, when we were let go by them, we were free to go back to our dormitories.

And I remember going back to our dormitories. We all lived in separate little rooms, and I remember just really being very scared of what’s going to happen. And the woman that was a friend of mine, she was a stationed soldier there, and she didn’t come back that night because she had to be on guard.

Things were just really chaotic on the base. And there was a big fear in the air about: Would Fort Meade be a target because of the NSA? And I remember hearing that if they were, a plane were to crash into NSA, the whole security of the world would be down -- whether or not that’s true.

If we would lose all communication with bases and security across the world, I don’t know, but I remember hearing this and thinking: Wow! That would be really scary, you know, if we lost all communication access and security values, worldly.

So this was in the air. People were afraid: Are we going to be attacked? And because there was things in New York, something in Pennsylvania, and then something in Washington, DC, it literally made a circle around our base.

BR:  Yes.

EN:  And so there was the thing of: Are ships coming in? Is something going to happen here? What’s going on?

BR:  Yes. What else is there that we don’t know about?

EN:  Exactly.

BR:  Sure. Yes. Seen from a standard military viewpoint, you can really understand and sympathize with this situation. Absolutely. Now, did you have a chance to talk with your fellow trainee when you were relieved from your duty in the room? Or the next day? Or whenever?

EN:  Yes. We talked about... We talked after. Yes. I remember we went home together because she had a car. But actually neither of us wanted to talk about it. We just wanted to go home.

And I remember exactly what I did when I got home. [laughs] I have this CD. It’s called Peace of Mind. I put it on. I laid on my bamboo carpet on the floor and I laid there and I let myself fall into the floor, like a meditation.

BR:  Yes.

EN:  I was so overwhelmed. And I remember it was hard for her and I, after that, to really connect. I think we both felt like, in a way our mentality had been violated, if that makes sense. It’s almost like you’re too young and you heard too much. It’s too overwhelming, you know?

We heard things that we knew nobody else would know and that we were not supposed to say anything. And it actually led to an interesting experience because we both had this We can’t talk about this feeling that...

Totally different subject, but the same girl and I... A few weeks later, I think sometime the end of October, the two of us were running in the morning or in the afternoon or something near the golf course and we heard someone screaming for help.

And the two of us looked in this direction and saw that there was an old man on the ground. And so she ran. And I jumped in front of a Porsche with the Commander in it, and I told him to call the hospital, and they sent an ambulance.

She and I went to this man and he was having a heart attack. We both started CPR on him until... A man from the marines came at that moment, and I was so grateful he did the mouth-to-mouth. [laughs] I didn’t really want to do that, but I would have.

This was my first confirming experience of the spirit. I was checking his pulse, undoing his pants to relieve any circulation, and I saw his spirit rise up out of his body, literally, like a blue-greenish hue just lifting up out of him. And at this moment I felt completely peaceful, like: OK, he’s gone. And then I went and I consoled his friends.

And why I’m saying this is because she and I never told anybody about this. We never told anybody that we tried to save this man’s life. He ended up dying. He was revived enough but he died later in the hospital.

We didn’t say a thing, the two of us. We never talked about it. We didn’t say anything. And I know that is because we had this thing: We can’t say anything. Both of us were afraid.

Somebody later approached us and we wound up getting awards and ribbons for Outstanding Action in the Military.

BR:  Because of that?

EN:  Because we went out of our way to give medical attention to a civilian.

BR:  OK. At what point, then, did you connect in with the mainstream media to find out what they were saying about all of this?

EN:  I didn’t have television in my room... and there wasn’t so much internet at that time, or, I wasn’t so into internet at that time.

A few months later I was granted leave to go home. It might have been Thanksgiving or something. Or maybe I heard it from family or a friend that this is what had happened.

BR:  You mean the whole modern myth that they...

EN:  Exactly.

BR:  ...that the plane crashed.

EN:  Is that what you meant? Yes. I didn’t know - I didn’t have TV, I didn’t have access. I didn’t listen to the radio.

And I remember my brother came to pick me up at the base once, and he took me out into the city, and I remember he and I were talking about it. He was really big into reading the Illuminati Trilogies, and just really into these things anyhow, so he asked me a lot of questions. And in this I know that we talked about this as well, and I told him. He was the first person I talked to about any of this, and I told him everything at the time.

But I didn’t hear about it on the base, as far as I recall. I didn’t know about this.

BR:  Yes.

EN:  But I also remember the confronting feeling when I would be around ... because there were civilians that worked in the hospital as well. And then when they would talk about the heroes and these things, the conflict that I had inside of myself was wanting to bust out and say: That’s not true!

They didn’t crash the plane. If they would have crashed it, there would have been a skeleton of the plane. There was no... Nothing. It was blown up.

BR:  Yes. It was blown to pieces. Yes. So how... I mean, here we are seven and half years on and you’ve talked to a lot of people, given this a great deal of thought, read a lot of stuff that’s out there debating all of this.

How do you reconcile what happened in that room with the huge pile of evidence that this was in some way a manufactured event, a modern Pearl Harbor?

In this conversation we don’t need to go into that, but I am just interested in what your personal opinion is of the fact that there’s an interesting irony here, that although you’re blowing the whistle on the fact that this plane was shot down, you’re actually giving support to what a lot of military people, good military people, would say: We didn’t have a clue what was happening that day. Nobody knew.

And so, there’s an interesting intellectual conflict here with this information that surrounds us. What’s your resolution of that?

EN:  Well, sometimes I feel kind of confused about it because I think: Well, OK. I can see the rationale and I understand. It seems very logical and clear to me why the Twin Towers were taken out, why they were chosen.

It makes sense to me, all the evidence. I’ve seen so many movies, you know. This was planned. It was detonated just like a demolition.

But why? Why had they also arranged a third plane? OK, so if the US government arranged to have these two towers taken out, why had they arranged a third plane? And where was this third plane heading?

Because to blow something like the cover of Site R doesn’t help the military. Do you see what I’m saying?

BR:  Uh huh.

EN:  So I don’t understand why this third plane would even be playing a part in this. It doesn’t affect that.

The only thing I can think is if the third plane was also intended for somewhere in the city [New York City] as well, and that the people actually did take over the hijackers and divert the plane so that the plane ended up flying aimlessly someplace else. And of course the people don’t know how to talk over the radio or any of these things. And that’s maybe something that happened.

And I have seen in a video, when you see the second plane crash in, there’s a third plane in the distance moving away from the city. I feel conflicted, actually.

BR:  Yes. That third plane... we're told by our witness, Henry Deacon -- it’s known by researchers as “the white plane”. Nobody really knows what it is. That was the data-relay plane. Signals were sent to that plane from thousands of miles away, which were then relayed as a local control-point to the two planes that flew into the two towers.

EN:  OK.

BR:  So that was like, it was basically a local radio relay point, that third plane. That’s what it was.

EN:  OK.

BR:  We have that on record.

EN:  OK.

BR:  And what Henry told us was that, although he didn’t know what the whole operation was until the morning when he was briefed about it, he had prior to that been working on the electronics hook-up for this remote control situation.

EN:  Yes.

BR:  And he actually describes how he was shocked when he was briefed early in the morning at his place of work, like: When you see all this stuff that’s going to happen which will be reported on television later today, don’t worry about a thing. This is just one of our projects. Just forget about it.

And everyone just nodded and went back to the work. They didn’t even react to the plan that thousands of people would be murdered.

Henry was shocked. He was shocked by realizing what it was that he had been asked to work on, because up until then he hadn’t really known, and also by the reactions of his colleagues.

And then he had several hours of deep inner conflict because he could have sabotaged the whole thing by bugging the radio relay system. And he didn’t do that. And he lives with that. And of course, if he had done it, they would have found out within hours and he’d be a dead man, or as good as. But he didn’t do anything he could have done.

EN:  Yes. So I guess I really don’t... It doesn’t make sense to me.

BR:  At the highest level that occurs to me is... Of course, the thing is highly compartmentalized, as it is in all projects.

There’ll be a group of people in the military, and in politics, and intelligence, who knew that this was an inside job. Of course they’re not going to tell everybody. They’re just going to tell the few who need to know.

Their very objective of compartmentalization actually comes out in a story like this. There’s this... It’s this incredible irony that you’re blowing the whistle actually on this situation that shows that there were senior Commanders who didn’t know what was going on. That’s one of the reasons why they didn’t know, in case anything like this ever came up.

It’s sort of how they think, often thinking in defensive terms like: What happens? If this information leaks, then what? Then what? Then what? So they keep it pretty tight.

EN:  Right.

BR:  It’s an extraordinary story. What was it that made you feel that it was the right thing to do to tell this story? Because you must... I mean, you spent a lot of time thinking about this and keeping it to yourself, as you had sort of trained yourself to do.

EN:  I don’t think that I had found anybody that I would really want to talk to about this. I have a friend who has urged me to write about this in a book and I never felt like that was necessary for me to do that.

I feel like it’s necessary that people hear this information and I’ve never been afraid that what I know... because actually, to me, I know this. This is what was. It’s kind of logical [laughs] for me. It’s practical that it happened like this.

You have to make up a story and lie to make it not like this, is how I see it. And also I just felt like I never had a place where this information could be held and given in a good way.

It’s not like I would call Fox News, or something, you know?

BR:  Yes. Right.

EN:  And more and more it really took some time and some prodding to dig this out. Like I said, most of my abilities to remember things of my three years in the military are only by recall if someone asks me a question, or if somebody asks me to think about something. Most of it is a compartmentalized part of my memory that I don’t think about very much.

BR:  Yes. It might be worthwhile just mentioning that as part of this process and in preparation for this conversation, you called somebody who you had spoken with and trusted at the time, to check whether you were remembering things clearly. Is that right?

EN:  That’s correct. And I actually didn’t tell him. I asked him to tell me.

BR:  Yes.

EN:  And he did it, word for word. Other than the minor little remembering details, he told me exactly what I told you today.

BR:  I guess that’s confirmation that you’ve got it nailed, that you’re not making something up. He said: Yes. This is what happened, bang, bang, bang, bang. This is what you told me at the time.

EN:  Yep.

BR:  Yes. It’s a very, very important story.

EN:  Mm.

BR:  We will do what we can to draw the attention of 9/11 researchers to this. I don’t know whether they can draw any staggeringly startling conclusions from it. They’ll probably say two things.

They’ll probably say: This is great. We thought it was heavily compartmentalized, and now we know it must have been. And yeah, it was shot down, which we always knew anyway - but it’s nice to hear it from somebody.

Because nobody has ever come forward on the record to say: Yes. It was shot down because of standard military protocol. Nothing nasty. Nothing evil. They were just doing their job.

EN:  Mm hm.

BR:  Very, very interesting story. Is there anything else that you want to add?

EN:  I just feel like, if this could inspire others to come forward and if they also know things like this, that would be fabulous. Because maybe there are some things that I don’t have correctly, but it’s a step closer towards the truth. And that’s the most important thing.


Click here for the original audio
Click here for one of many websites depicting the claimed Flight 93 crash site at Shanksville, PA.
Major Rick Gibney, the F-16 pilot who was claimed to have fired the missile.
Discussion of the Rick Gibney story.
Testimony that a live missile was fired by an F-16 that morning.
Video of a Rumsfeld slip of the tongue suggesting that Flight 93 was shot down.


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Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy