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Aquamarine Dreams: Ralph Ring and Otis T Carr
A video interview with Ralph Ring
Las Vegas, August 2006

Also present: Gary Voss from The Ranch: a consortium researching exotic energy and antigravity systems.

Ralph Ring: He says, "You're gonna get onboard and you're gonna go some place and you're gonna come back. And that's all." And he said, "But I'm gonna tell you ahead of time, your brain will no longer...
Gary Voss: the same?
Ralph: [laughs] "You will lose it. Because it won't understand and it won't comprehend what's happening. So use your mind, use your feeling, come from your heart. Meditate. Go into a focus point and go to your higher thoughts and feelings, you know, rather than worrying about what was gonna happen."

Ralph: ...these shutters are opening and shutting, creating all this reality you see around you. It doesn't really exist. It's all spirit. It's all energy. But we're creating this.

Start of interview

Gary Voss: Do you want to give us an intro on how you and Otis Carr came together and what your background was at the time, and then bring us up to date?

Kerry: And how you worked with Jacques Cousteau?

Ralph: OK. Yeah. That's a good place to start. I got out of the service in '54. When I was in the service I was stationed on Guam. And they had the Korean outbreak and they shipped us out in the middle of the night to Korea. And I made the Inchon landing and I went through that situation, which was kind of unpleasant.

I got wounded about four times, and had frostbite and so forth. And I became very, very discouraged with the military. Totally. Because of, you know, everything. And I was an objector from the start on killing people, so I'd shoot in the air or whatever. They didn't care much for me.

While I was on Guam, the Marines would fight with the Army and the Army would fight with the Navy - at bars. They'd go out and have fistfights. And I preferred to go down to the beach and look around and I finally got into scuba diving... skin diving, actually, with a snorkel, and found a whole new environment under water and I became fascinated with it. And so I kept developing that until the outbreak in Korea.

When I got back to the States I was in heavy weapons. I was with the 3rd Division, 7th Regimental Combat Unit, which is nothing more than machine guns, heavy mortars, and big artillery. Even though I put in for engineering school continuously in my time in the service, they kept putting me back in the infantry.

So when I got out I didn't have much to go on except my interest in diving. So I started a diving business, a skin diving, scuba diving business, in San Francisco and eventually graduated down to Southern California where my family was, my relatives and stuff, in Newport Beach and Costa Mesa, California. And I met my first wife and we got married and had a couple of children.

And I was diving on my own then. I was doing a lot of diving. I was doing abalone diving, research and development diving, and recovery diving. And it was going along well but my wife didn't like the idea that I'd be away for a couple of days on the boat, and stuff, 'cause the kids were growing up and they needed their dad, and so forth.

So, to make a long story short, I went to work for the manufacturing plant, at that time, for US Divers, was located in Costa Mesa, or Santa Ana. And so I went to work for US Divers which had developed the SCUBA, you know, Jacques Cousteau's scuba gear. And right away we hit it off because I am constantly a researcher and developer myself.

So I went into the research and development department and we'd take trips out to Catalina. My job was to test the wrap-around masks, at one stage. Anyway, I got really involved with that, but we'd stay out longer and longer on research trips. And my wife was getting very insistent that I get something a little less dangerous and a little more domestic at home. [laughs] So she found this ad in the paper and said, "Advance Kinetics is advertising. They need lab techs, laboratory technicians, and research technicians. Why don't you go check? Because your interest has always been in science and you're always 'off.'" (When I get home I'm always tearing things apart and stuff.)

So I went over there and it was lunch time. Everybody was out to lunch. So I was walking down the hall and I passed the Director's office, Dr. Weinhart.
And he says, "What are you doing?"
And I says, "Well, I'm looking for a job. You had an ad in the paper."
And he says, "Well, they're all out to lunch." And he says, "Come in. Let's talk. What have you done and what is your background?"
"I don't have any credentials except bumblebees and lizards and things that I've studied and I've found out that there's quite a bit credibility to natural law that I apply to things and it always works."
So he said, "Magnetics? You're interested?"
I said, "Yeah. I've studied magnetics all my life. I love it."
"Well, you know, coincidentally, the guy that was working our magnetic project just left." And, "Come to work tomorrow morning. You're going on the magnetic project."
And I said, "Fine. Great."

So what it was... I had a bench, a workbench and there was a cathode ray tube shooting, firing electrons (and I had an oscilloscope mounted with camera, high speed camera, high speed everything) through a magnetic field. I was firing electrons. And he said, "Take pictures of them. The idea, your goal, is to get one electron completely through the field without deflection, without it being pulled to the positive or negative." I said, "Fine," you know. "No problem. It's an easy job." So I just kept taking pictures - quite extensive, and expensive. Every day, you know, it was about $1,000 worth of work every day that was paid for by the taxpayers for the research. And I started questioning it. And my affiliation with nature told me that they were using force.

Voss: Brute force.

Ralph: Brute force. And it doesn't work with the laws of nature.

Voss: No. It doesn't.

Ralph: So I said, "This is never gonna work. I can appreciate this guy leaving. He got fed up." And I was getting there fast. So I went home. And I had gone to garage sales and collected, you know... I had an audio amplifier. I had a frequency generator. I had different things at home, and I tore apart a TV and got a cathode ray. I started the experiment on a small scale on my living room floor. And I set it all up and got everything the way I felt it should work. And, instead of forcing the electron, I pulsed them. I just gave 'em a pulse. And that's all I did. And they, on their own, started a circular motion.

Voss: Traveling in their own pattern, and how much they wanted to at a specific moment.

Ralph: Yeah. And they went from negative to positive, all the way through to the end of the...

Voss: Just feeding it back to the source.

Ralph: And I said, "My god, that was simple." Because the first shot went through. And then I did many, many more and they all went through without deflection at all. So, I'm happy. This is gonna get me a raise, maybe.

So, then the next experiment: On the bench next to me they were working on levitation.

Voss: Who's "they"?

Ralph: Other technicians, other engineers were working.

Voss: And what department were they?

Ralph: Advanced kinetics. The laboratory was huge and we had different work benches. They were working on lasers to the moon, levitation.

Voss: So there were different interests involved in some of the projects as well.

Ralph: The government was funding this. This was all government funded research.

Voss: Department of the Army?

Ralph: I don't know.

Kerry: To get back to your story, though. So you had developed this pulsing, and you're saying, next door...

Ralph: The next bench over they were working on levitation. And they had... just coils... you know, iron with copper wiring. And they had steel balls and they would put them on top and fire it up and they would levitate the ball for, I think, 4 to 8 minutes, and it would burn the coil out. They were called 'igliotrons', I believe, was the correct term for them. And they'd have to go to supply and get another one, and get another one. And they were burning up two or three or four of these. And in those days (that was the '50s) they were like $400 a copy. And they were, just, "We don't care. We've got plenty of 'em." And they were burning these things up.

So the other experiment I did at home was, I took a 15-inch woofer speaker that I got at a garage sale, or, I don't know, out of a sound system somewhere. And I put it just flat on the carpet on my living room floor and attached my audio amplifier to it and I started experimenting with, like, acoustical levitation, thinking, you know, they were using this force to push up, and they were using a lot of power. I'll try sound waves, I'll try sympathetic vibrations or whatever.

So I fooled around with different objects and I'd have tentative results. They'd start pulsing and stuff. But then I put a ping-pong ball in the center and I kept fooling, and I think it was at 28,000 cycles I got the ping-pong ball to come up.

Voss: Interesting that you mention that because I recall seeing a news clip back in 1989 showing that scientists "discovered" how to do exactly what you just described.


Kerry: Which you had done, in the '60s or something? The '50s?

Ralph: The '50s. The solution was quite simple. It could be done today. It could be duplicated today I suppose. I've never tried it. I didn't need to go back to it. But it was a very simple operation because you let nature do all the work. And all I did was understand what was happening. So, the thing with the ping-pong ball, once I got it to levitate I was excited as heck. And my wife said, "Come to bed. Come to bed." So I went to bed and the next morning when I woke up the ping-pong ball was still sitting there.

Kerry: Levitating? That's amazing.

Ralph: Levitating. I think it was 28,000 cycles.

Voss: No heat?

Ralph: No heat.

Kerry: Just sound?

Ralph: Acoustical sound. That was all it was.

Voss: Was it audible to the human ear?

Ralph: No. I couldn't hear a thing.

Voss: So you're talking perhaps high frequency levels, or ultra high?

Ralph: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I experimented down in the lower ranges and nothing seemed to happen. It would bounce and stuff. But when I got up...

Voss: In the UHF.

Ralph: [nods] Yeah. Then it happened. So I thank my wife for pushing into that direction because this is my field. This is what I always wanted to do. And I think, "We're on to something here." And I could put my two cents into the pot and help humanity do something.

Kerry: Way back then, you knew all this.

Ralph: Oh yeah.

Kerry: And so you took it to these guys, right? And how did they react?

Ralph: I took it to Dr. Weinhart himself. I took Polaroids and I wrote up papers on it, just like I did at the lab and I took it in to Dr. Weinhart.
And he says, "Close the door. Come in. Sit down." He looked it all over and stuff and he said, "Yeah, I know it's that simple, Ralph. I know that. I know that. But this is a government-funded research facility. We count on the funds to keep us going. We're not necessarily interested right now in finding the answers. We're interested in looking for them. And we get paid handsomely for looking for the answers."
And I said, "Well, here, look. This works. I mean, maybe I don't know what I'm doing and maybe it's not right, but I thought if I turned it over to the boys here we can come together. And this a lot simpler than $400 a copy for igliotrons and wasting our time with the cathode that you've got set up."
And he said, "I can appreciate what you've come up with. And I didn't think you'd get there this fast with this because of your interest in natural law but I'm gonna have to shred this." (He had a shredder right there.) "I'm gonna have to shred this and tell you to go back to work on what you were doing."

Well, right there my whole world collapsed. I mean... I thought, "Where am I?" My whole attitude, my whole demeanor toward the world changed.

Voss: Yeah. Who are these people anyway and who are they really working for?

Ralph: Right. That's exactly the way I felt.

Kerry: So eventually you actually left the job, right?

Ralph: Yeah. To make a long story short, I went back, I worked another two weeks and I couldn't stand it. "That's it. I'm done."

But during this period I started meeting people just coincidentally. Most people I talked to outside of the lab didn't want to talk science. They wanted to talk other things, so I had very limited contacts with other people that were interested in science. Except I met this one person that said, "Well, you know, what you're talking about is exactly what they're talking about in these meetings that I go to. And the name of the meetings are called 'Understanding'. And they were developed by a person called Daniel Fry who was in the UFO stuff. And they want to understand more. Why don't you come to one of our meetings and talk?"

Well, I went to the meetings and kind of duplicated what I just said about where I was working, you know, and they said, "Oh, oh, you've got to meet somebody. You've got to meet Mr. Carr."

Voss: What year was this now?

Ralph: I think it was late '59 or early '60.
And they said, "You guys are talkin' the same thing. The same exact thing."
And I said, "Well, OK."
And he said, "Well, coincidentally he just had some bad luck in Norman, Oklahoma." (That's where he was trying to demonstrate the craft, you know, the flying disks. And they started negatively defining his work. And the newspapers got ahold of it... "He's trying to get funds to do something that's impossible." And: "Science has just never heard of such a thing." And so forth.) "So we're going to bring him out here and we're gonna get a lab out here, with his entourage. And let's go, let's try another place, another time and see if we can get somewhere."

So they did. And I met with Carr and his entourage. He had Dennis Ripolte, Norman Colton, Wayne Aho. I don't know. There were about six of them.

Voss: He had a little consortium going.

Kerry: And where was this based now? Where was your group meeting?

Ralph: This was in Costa Mesa, California, where these 'Understanding' meetings were and that's where I met Carr. They found out they were after Carr. He was having all kinds of misses. They were trying to quiet his efforts.

Kerry: When you say he was having misses, actually people were trying to kill him?

Ralph: Yeah. They were threatening and then, you know, he'd have to be very careful where he went because he'd find people kind of, you know, very curiously observing him, and you know, things like this.

Voss: They already knew what you were up to and they probably were following you as well as following him.

Ralph: That's a good point and I didn't bring this up but I think it's important. You've heard by now... it's all over the place... about three Men in Black?

Kerry: Right.

Ralph: OK. This was back before I'd even heard of such a thing. These three guys showed up at my door after this experiment and after Weinhart had destroyed these things. Honest to god, they were in black suits. [laughter]
And they said, "We're from the DeWalt School of Electronics and we've heard about you. Can we come in? We want to know about your experiments and what you're doing and everything."
And I was a little hesitant but I invited 'em in and I started talking.
And my wife said, "No. No. These guys don't feel right."

Kerry: Ah ha.

Voss: She's very intuitive. She had a bad feeling about them.

Ralph: Yeah. She sure did.
And I said, "Well we can't kick 'em out."
But they became a little more insistent. Like: "Well, give us how you did this." And: "I want the details," and stuff. And they're not giving me anything back. They're just kind of taking.
And she caught this and she goes, "I'm going to have to ask you guys to leave right now. You can come back later or whatever you want to do, but you've gotta leave right now."
And she kicked them out of the house.

Kerry: [laughs] OK. So you started in Costa Mesa. And didn't you move out of there, or something?

Ralph: Yeah. The 'Understanding' group had a cabin. There were lots of people in the 'Understanding' group. There was, I don't know, a couple of dozen people that would meet... had a cabin up at Lake Arrowhead, which is down by the riverside, up in the mountains in California. And they said, "We've got to get Carr and you guys in a safe place. And there's a nice big cabin, and room enough for everybody. Go on up there and then we'll keep workin' on what we're gonna do."

So I got up there, talkin' with Carr and his protégés, his people that he had with him, and man, I just lit up like a Christmas tree. I mean, I was on Cloud Nine! Man... he was answering questions that I had on things and I was answering questions he had on things and it was just... Man!

Voss: Connected on all kinds of levels.

Ralph: God! It was the most wonderful time of my life. We were feeding the raccoons to keep our minds... We were so anxious to get goin' on the project. And we had a phone call and they said, "We've got you a place. It's just down the hill from where you're at, on the other side, in Apple Valley, or Hesperia, California." Near Victorville. It's coincidentally, because all these people moved on feelings and spirit, if you will.

Voss: This is the same era, I wanted to point out, that George Van Tassel was having a lot of UFO meetings out at the Integratron near Joshua Tree.

Ralph: I'm glad you mentioned Van Tassel. I had forgot. I had ordered from Europe Tesla's big book and it did get to me. And I was going through all the patents and everything in the big book. And when this thing happened with my wife kickin' these guys out and everything I got a little apprehensive. And I decided... I knew of Van Tassel. And I knew a little bit about his background. This was before I met Carr. So I took a trip. I got in my car because I was going to try to meet people that...

Voss: Would be more accepting?

Ralph: Yeah. Who were more accepting. And I took this "Bible" down to Giant Rock, Joshua Tree, California, and met with Van Tassel and we had a nice talk. And I said, "You know, I'm supposed to give you this," you know. "I'm out of this phase of it. I don't know where I'm goin' or what I'm gonna do. This is it." And I gave it to 'im. And I remember it was getting late that afternoon or evening and I went out and laid on a hillside and I looked up in the sky. And I saw hundreds, if not thousands, of whatever they were. UFOs. Spaceships.

Voss: Different, various shapes? Lights?

Kerry: Really?

Ralph: Yeah. Green lights or whatever. I don't know. There was hundreds and hundreds. They were coming over and they'd stop and come down and go up and around. And, "Oh my god. This is really... this is really..." And I said, "What is this for?" And what I got was: "Because you did what you did." Wow.

Kerry: It was like a kind of thank you demonstration of a sort. That's amazing.

Ralph: And I just chilled all over.

Voss: "If you build it, we will come." [laughter]

Ralph: Oh, man! So than I got back and they had set up the meeting with Carr and then we got down into the laboratory down in Hesperia, down in Apple Valley. And we started setting up shop. We had a little machine shop set up and we had, you know, all kinds of stuff to do things with, but we had a couple of models that they brought with them that were semi-operational. So the first experiment that I saw that just knocked my socks off was... We set it up on one of the work benches and attached - not electricity, but sound waves, if you will. Or maybe it was, I think... I'm not sure. Anyway, this was a small model, about, was it two feet in diameter? Two or three feet in diameter. And they said, "Well, take a look at this." So they fired it up. Hardly any noise, just a hum, a vibratory hum. And it was made out of aluminum. I touched the surface of it and it felt good, but I could feel the vibration. And so they kept increasing the energy and then there was this feeling... Jeez, it felt like somebody opened a door and a cool breeze was coming through. It felt really good. And at that time I went to touch it again and it was like jello, it was getting soft, getting really, really soft, like I could put my fingers through it. Better than jello, because it didn't stick or anything. I put my hand in and pulled it out.

Voss: Oh my goodness! And what did it feel like when your hand was inside of the gelatinous material? Did you feel anything?

Ralph: Well, it was the same tingling that we were all feeling in this room. We had accelerated our efforts. It was like what it was doing, we were doing.

Kerry: Oh, I see. So you were speeding up, kind of like in sympathy to the vibrations.

Ralph: Exactly. Exactly.

Kerry: That resonance that you talk about.

Ralph: Um hum. And after the experiment, Carr... The way he briefed us on things was just, we'd sit down and have a cup of coffee, you know? It was just... He'd come out with this wonderful stuff about the laws of nature and how that is our whole essence and if we ignore it, we're in trouble. He's got to understand these laws and how they work for anything. If you want a comfortable life, a good life, a happy life, and especially if you want to get anywhere in technology, you can't use brute force. And I told him about Advanced Kinetics and everything and he kind of laughed. He told me a lot. He worked with Tesla. He had known him for a while and worked with him. And I guess by now you already know about the story of Tesla going to J. P. Morgan.

Voss: When he showed the wireless tower, how to transmit power wirelessly, he says, "It's a real good idea, but how are we gonna stick a meter on it?" [laughter] The essence of "We are in control." It's really astounding. And he definitely sent the message.

He said, "If we go your way, Tesla, we'll have no more copper mills, no more lumber, trees for telephone poles, and wire."
And he said, "Well, that's the idea. You can stick a pole in the ground 30 feet and 30 feet [up into the air]. I'll show ya. We can get electricity anywhere. It's all around us. We're living in it."
And Morgan said, "No way, Tesla. There's no money in that."

Voss: J.P. Morgan, from what I understand, was also one of the first, one of the pioneers in the military-industrial complex. He was THE man. And soon afterward, he pretty much picked up the Bat Phone to Washington and said, "Hey, we've got this loose cannon on our hands," and the implications of the conversations pretty much took care of burying Tesla from thenceforth. And, I guess, from what I understand from reading some of the journals, they gathered up all his equipment and shipped it off to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and I guess they put him up in a hotel, the Waldorf Astoria, and gave him a government stipend. And the agents were always on the crawl, prowling everywhere, interrupting his conversations and pretty much filtering out any connections with the outside world to him.

Kerry: Did Carr mention what happened to Tesla? Did he talk to you guys about that?

Ralph: Tesla became discouraged because of the lack of interest in, you know... I mean, he'd take 'em a new idea, bring out a new idea, and show 'em the simplicity, that there's nothin' to it. And they'd say, "Well, there's no money in it. Forget it." I mean, everything he'd bring up, you know...

Kerry: So it was Carr's point of view that Tesla was discouraged. But did Carr sort of relate his being hounded, you know, by the military, or being shadowed and so on? I mean, what happened to Carr as being the same thing that happened to Tesla? In other words, did he talk about that at all? Carr? Before he died?

Ralph: Well, I guess. I don't know. Carr didn't talk too much about the threats or anything that Tesla had, you know. But I was under the impression talking to Carr that there were many, many things happening that were trying to keep Tesla under wraps, trying to keep him quiet. And Tesla had told him at one time, he says, "You know, I may never make it in this generation to get these ideas out. This is all just free energy. Free."
You've got four elements: sun, water, the earth, and the air. They're all free. They have been forever and they always will be. And we're not using 'em. We're inventing ways to put meters on 'em and sell 'em. Even selling air at one time, and now they're selling water.

Voss: Who would have thought, hmm?

Kerry: [laughs] Yeah.

Ralph: So Tesla told 'im: "All this that I'm sharing with you..." (And he thought Carr was brilliant. He thought, you know, he was grasping everything that Tesla was telling him, because Carr had been into nature for years himself.) He said, "If I don't make it," or "When I don't make it, because I probably won't make it, you take it and pass it on. And if you don't make it, pass it on."

But it's going to get worse because they've already challenged nature. Man, way back there, had challenged nature. And what goes around comes around. Natural law. It will come back on us.

Kerry: Basically Carr did exactly what Tesla asked him to do. He took it forward.

Ralph: Yes.

Kerry: In a sense you are taking forward what Carr...

Ralph: Oh, you bet.

Kerry: You seem to be the person that is like a descendent of Carr. In that line. Am I right?

Ralph: Yeah. I would say so.

Kerry: It's so amazing to me that you're so unknown.

Ralph: Well, there are many reasons for that.

Kerry: Because we would like to actually know why you're so unknown. You know what I mean?

Ralph: OK. I will tell you. They were all hit-and-miss. But Carr was always on and I'd stay up all night. We'd be looking at the stars and talk all night and never need any sleep. I mean, I'd go to work the next day and just feel pumped up all the time talkin' to this guy. He was just... wow. And I said, "You know, don't worry. We're gonna get this thing going here."

And they said, "They're closin' in. They know he's in California now." And some of our experiments on some of the craft... We operated different principles. And some of them would create a corona on the outside of the... We'd operate these little...

Voss: The dielectric principles. The ionization process.

Ralph: Right. And so even though it was daylight sometimes [makes sound of object moving fast] you'd see these things. And the people in the valley were... That was the era of flying saucers and stuff and so they thought, "Oh my god, this place's got flying saucers around here," and stuff; well, that and the fact that the "powers" that were trying to reduce Carr's activities were following him, trying to find him. So he said, "We're just gonna have to keep workin' on this."

Carr had made arrangements and I went with him to meet with a representative of General Motors car company. I think that was at Riverside. The guy committed to meet with Carr because Carr told him a few things that interested him. So I went with him. And Ripolte was there. And I think Aho was there.
And in a very precise way Carr said, "You know, we can levitate these machines now. We can get off the Earth. We're killing a lot of animals. We're destroying the plant life." He said, "Within a year we'll have these things going. We can start with the automobile. That's obsolete. We can get these things going. And then the homes." (Which is my interest. I've always wanted, you know, why not? Like the Jetsons, for instance, you know, floating homes. And then maybe cities, and then maybe countries. Who knows the end of it?)
But this guy got real, real aggressive and said, "You put 'em up there, Carr, and we'll shoot 'em down."
That was his words. "You put 'em up and we'll shoot 'em down."

Kerry: Wow.

Ralph: And I was flabbergasted. Like... why? And he says, "You're advocating an energy field that there's no money involved. We can't..."

Voss: We have no means of controlling it, was his premise.

Ralph: Right. "You're pulling energy out of the air which is all around us and using that to transport, or teleport, or whatever..."

Kerry: So you guys just basically walked out of there and said, "OK." What did Carr say? Did he say, "OK. I won't do it any more?" What did Carr say? I'm curious, after that. Sort of a standoff?

Ralph: No. Oh, I don't remember his exact words, but he was very, very good, the way he said it to this guy.

Kerry: Oh really?

Ralph: Yeah. He said, "It's only a matter of time until it comes back."

Voss: "You can't stop us. You can't stop IT."

Ralph: Yeah. "It's here. Whether it's here today or tomorrow, it's here. It's rapidly approaching the point where is HAS to be. Not "want to be," but HAS to be." And he said, "I'm sorry you don't see our point because we were willing to work with you. You could find us and we could show you what we can do." And the guy wasn't interested. So we just left. And that was, you know, another acquaintance that I had with the system that we live in that, you know, I could never accept.

We went back to Apple Valley and said, "Let's get the 45-foot craft going. Let's have people onboard. And we'll document it and have the proof and then we'll have the 'Understanding' group finding ways to let people know what we were going to do. We were going to have live demonstrations eventually."

To make a long story short, we went through stages and we finally got to the big craft. [film shows technical drawings of various craft] There was actually two of them but there was the one craft that we were ready to try an experiment with.

Kerry: And how big was that, again?

Ralph: 45 feet in diameter. And we were by that time... You know, we didn't have any fences or anything around us and you could see the thing from the road, and stuff, and we knew it was only a matter of time before the looky-loos started getting there. But we didn't care. We knew we had to do something because now General Motors was gonna go tell whoever what we were proposing it wouldn't be long before they found out what we were doing.

Well, he said, "Come on. We're gonna go." He got us in the briefing room and he told three of us... I don't remember who the other two guys were now. It wasn't Ripolte. It wasn't Colton. It wasn't Aho. But there were three of us. And he said, "What you're gonna do, you're gonna get onboard. We're gonna go downrange." (We had a 65-mile range in Apple Valley. Where we eventually wound up was about 10 miles, I think, down range.) He said, "You're gonna get on board and we're gonna go some place and then we're gonna come back, and that's all." And he said, "But I want to tell you ahead of time your brain will no longer...

Voss: Be the same?

Ralph: [laughs] "Well, you will lose it because it won't understand and it won't comprehend what's happening. So use your mind, use your feelings, come from your heart. Meditate. Go into a focus point and go to your higher thoughts and feelings, you know, rather than worrying about what was gonna happen." So he said "It's gonna be a strange experience for you, but it will happen and we'll document it."

And so we got onboard and what it was there onboard was just like a small crystal ball in the center. (It wasn't actually in the center. It was off center a little bit.) And it had a... I think it was a laser; I don't know. But there was a white light coming up from the bottom of it, shining up through it. And it just beautifully broke the color spectrum from infrared, red-red, orange-orange, yellow-yellow, all the way around 360 degrees. Anywhere you wanted to go, any degree you wanted to go in, the color spectrum was there. I thought, "Boy. That's beautiful!" And we'd been briefed on it but until I saw it I didn't realize what was going on.

And he said, "OK. Just relax. We're gonna go to an area that symbolizes..." (He used to use symbols a lot. I mean, he'd say, you know, "Talking is useless. You have to use higher-than-talking symbols to reach the mind.")

Voss: Thinking in pictures.

Ralph: In pictures. Right. In fact, off the subject for a minute, when I used to read a lot one of my greatest people was Kahlil Gibran. He wrote the book, The Prophet, and in there one of his sayings was, "Half of what I say to you is meaningless, but it's necessary so that the other half may reach you."

And I thought, "Oh, now I get it. You have to come from the soul or the heart or it's no good. It's just goin' around in circles."

Kerry: Was there something about choosing the blue spectrum in order to...

Ralph: Aquamarine. We were in touch. I don't know if we had walkie-talkies, but I remember that we were in touch, and he said, "OK. We're going to aquamarine. That's over there. [gestures right] Hang on, boys, let's go." So we set there. I'm just doing this from memory...

Voss: So you're all collectively focusing the same collective thought, to feed this energy into a center focal point which is the ball.

Ralph: Right. And this ball, then, started just closing down [with hands demonstrates a sphere getting smaller] and focusing on aquamarine. The whole thing became aquamarine. "My god, how did he do that?" He told us later that we were a part of doing it because we were focused on it. I thought, "Oh, oh, oh, this is great!"

Voss: Like a biofeedback mechanism is synergistic.

Ralph: Yeah! So we got focused on it and then I was waiting for the thing to move now. And nothing seemed to happen.
And then Carr said, "OK, boys, get out of the craft and see what's goin' on."
"Didn't it work, or what happened?"
He said, "Come on. Get out of the craft."

We got out and we were down range 10 miles where this aquamarine area was.

Voss: I'm guessing that this whole process, you're talking about probably a few minutes.

Ralph: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll get to the timing in a minute.
So he said, "All right. Pick up rocks. Put 'em in your pocket. Take some grass or whatever you can find. Some tumbleweed. Whatever you can find and get acquainted with where you're at. Because when you get back you're not gonna remember any of this."
That was the gist of the whole thing. So we did, and we got back on board and then [makes sound of fast movement] we were back.
And we got out of the craft, went in to debriefing, and said, "Well, what happened? It didn't work, did it?"
"You don't think it worked? Check your pockets."
And so we checked our pockets. And here's these dang rocks. I had grass stains, I had everything. I said, "Oh my god."

Voss: But you didn't have memory of this?

Ralph: No memory. No memory at all. I remembered later, being there and picking up the rocks. It was just like...

Voss: Like it was a dream or something.

Ralph: Like it was a dream. Exactly. You advance your imagination to a point and then you'd forget about it.
And so I thought, "This is the most incredible experience I've ever had."
And he said, "No, no, it's simple. Your brain is there to operate your body. You're in a vessel here. It's an illusionary vessel that people don't realize because we're creating it in microseconds. From one second to the other these shutters are opening and shutting, creating all this reality you see around you, but it doesn't really exist. It's all spirit. It's all energy, but we're creating it."
And he was blowing us away.
But he said, "Your brain has a capacity limit. It goes to a certain point of its responsibility and unless it's in touch with the Mind, unless it consents to be in touch with the Mind...

Kerry: The Greater Mind.

Ralph: Yeah, that's the Mind of all of us, because we're all One. "Unless it gets in touch with that, it doesn't know what's goin' on."

Voss: Am I to presume that at that moment that you had that flight of 10 miles distance, your brain was being stretched like a rubber band, but when you went back, you went back faster than the memories of the experience could come back and your brain could realize it?

Ralph: Yeah, something like that. Yeah.

Kerry: I don't know. Days later, months later, you could remember, like you said, picking up the rocks, then?

Ralph: Yeah, but I don't remember any movement whatsoever.

Kerry: You don't remember the craft moving? Or you don't...

Ralph: I'm sitting there and the ball turned to aquamarine and he said, "Get out of the craft." We got out. There was motion, but I don't remember too much of that. I remember being outside. And then I guess we got back in and back to the base. But to us it was at least 15 minutes.

Voss: Normal time.

Ralph: Normal time. Yeah. I figured we'd been gone about 15 minutes.

Voss: So there is a time variation going on here.

Ralph: And Carr explained it. He said, "Well, like, it's simple. People don't realize that Man in a sense created time. Time doesn't exist, in essence. It does when we create it and we have a beginning and an end to something. We call that time. But in a greater reality there is no time."

Kerry: That's like the eternal Now.

Ralph: Yeah. We pegged it at 15 minutes and he says just a few seconds. We just went outside and back in time. I mean, it's what you call it. What you create is what it is.

And since then I've had experiences that have told me just don't talk about it to anybody because, you know, most people are not interested because they're tied up with the creature comforts and so forth. And a lot of people, when I start getting close to it, they get a little fearful because they don't understand. And they, of course, think I'm...

Kerry: What happened after? I mean, you made that test flight, right?

Ralph: Right.

Kerry: And so you didn't make that many test flights after that. Is that right? You guys got closed down somehow?

Ralph: I did the one test flight and then we did some things that were there at the plant. But we didn't go down range or anything because it was just about within two weeks after that that the FBI and whoever these other guys, CIA or whatever, they came in to the plant. They came over with all their bells and whistles and said, you know, "You're shuttin' down right now." And we asked them why and they said "Because of your threat to overthrow the monetary system of the United States of America." That was their ploy.

Voss: Issues of national security and what have you.

Ralph: Yes. "And we're confiscating everything." And they went into the offices and they went into the lab and they started just confiscating everything. And then they debriefed us and told us, in essence, "You guys are wrong. You're attempting to overthrow the monetary system."

Voss: And this is what we're going to do to you if you don't cooperate. Sign here.

Kerry: Well, did they have you sign something?

Ralph: No. I don't remember signing anything.

Kerry: And what about Carr?

Ralph: Yeah, they might have had him... he got really, really... His health started going fast after that happened, and I don't know.

Kerry: You were working on this night and day, pretty much, at that point? So you guys disbanded based on these people coming in.

Ralph: And they said, "You are no longer allowed..."

Voss: In no uncertain terms you will cease and desist.

Ralph: In no uncertain terms. "We are watching you."

Kerry: So what did you do then? I mean, what did you do? Did you just go home? Did you try to work in secret at all at that point? Or anything like that?

Ralph: I tried to do it on my own, which I found out you can't do it. You've got to have other people.

Kerry: So, you and Carr, did you stay in touch after that?

Ralph: Well, they told us not to. Through understanding I was in touch with Carr. We'll get together again. But he was really... He said, "Nah. I don't think we're gonna make it this time."


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Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy